Forest

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:

Re: Brexit, I think it's a grand fiction perpetrated by all sides that PM May has failed because she wasn't decisive or strong enough.

I don't like the woman at all, but lack of determination is not one of her weaknesses. Disregard for civil liberties, sure. High-handed, moralising and paternalistic, sure. Bad dancing, sure. But she's always been decisive.

Given that her promised cross-party talks today ruled out any budging on May's position before they even started and that the leader of the opposition wasn't invited it's hard to disagree with you. Yet viewed from Europe indecision must be the impression our political system is giving. It took our government 15 months of the 2 year negotiation period even to set out (in the form of the Chequers plan) what it actually wanted, after which it signed up to a deal it was clearly unable to ratify in its own parliament. As the person with whom the buck stops May carries responsibility for that. If she failed to realise the deal would be unacceptable then that was a serious error, and if she knew that it would fail then she's wasted months of everyone's time by not admitting that agreement couldn't be reached - we could have been where we are now more than a year ago instead of playing chicken with the deadline like this. Her failure time and time again to react to, or even to acknowledge, the difficulties looks more like paralysis than determination.

That's it - they're the same thing. A stubborn refusal to negotiate with the enemy, and so on.

Reminds me of that Rorschach quote from The Watchmen:
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."

I've heard people quote that admiringly, and hold up this fictional sociopath who believes in torture and vigilante violence as a role model. That's the mentality that poisons so many societies - a belief that never compromising is somehow admirable.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:

What I'd like to see is a Prime Minister who says "I don't actually know the answer, but we're working on it" and "that was my position, but I've since reconsidered the evidence, and I don't believe that anymore", and then for the electorate to stand up and applaud, because actually, admitting ignorance is the key to knowledge, and being open to changing your mind is the key to rational action.

This.

I'm tired of politicians going around thinking they know the answer to every specific foreign policy question or whatever the topic may be. It's entirely unrealistic to assume anyone can be an expert on every field that a government must deal with. For once, someone needs to take a step back and say "You know, I'm not quite sure. However, I will do the best to educate myself on the matter and surround myself with people who do know and are experts in that specific field." Personally, that's not a bad answer for a politician to give.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:

That's it - they're the same thing. A stubborn refusal to negotiate with the enemy, and so on.

Reminds me of that Rorschach quote from The Watchmen:
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."

I've heard people quote that admiringly, and hold up this fictional sociopath who believes in torture and vigilante violence as a role model. That's the mentality that poisons so many societies - a belief that never compromising is somehow admirable.

In the Netherlands the quote "Je kunt beter ten onder gaan met je eigen visie dan met de visie van een ander" loosely translated as "It is better to go down with your own vision than with the vision of someone else" is somewhat popular. It might have something to do with that the quote is credited to Johan Cruijff but to me the popularity of the quote in a country where "polderen" (=consensus decision making) is cultural heritage is odd. A lot of people apparantly is willing to pick their own ego by their refussal to acknowledge that they might have made a mistake in the past over the common good.

Can someone please buy my cards? I've got too many and not enough storage or bank!

Sapnu puas wrote:

Can someone please buy my cards? I've got too many and not enough storage or bank!

let's see mmmm

Btw, for your brexit conversation, have you seen this already: "Andy Serkis absolutely CRUCIFIES Theresa May with Gollum portrayal" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sGH_v1mDEE

page=deck/card=2081112/season=1
could I get some assistance to, at the least, prevent others from buying this card?

No new elections. May's government defeats no-confidence motion by 325 to 306 votes.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:

That's it - they're the same thing. A stubborn refusal to negotiate with the enemy, and so on.

Reminds me of that Rorschach quote from The Watchmen:
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."

I've heard people quote that admiringly, and hold up this fictional sociopath who believes in torture and vigilante violence as a role model. That's the mentality that poisons so many societies - a belief that never compromising is somehow admirable.

Spot on. Tangentally, Watchmen was the first book I read where I realised I wasn't supposed to like the protagonist. I remember finding it a really uncomfortable experience actually, the slow grudging admiration for his sheer tenacity and the occasional realisation that he is an absolute monster and there's no way you can actually trust or believe anything about his past because he is so fundamentally damaged as a person.