Capitalist ParadiseBoard

Informed consent wrote:

Which may be a distinction without a difference in this case.
The articles I have been reading for the 1918-45 period has used the general label of public health system.
Distinct or not both were state operated social services that contributed to the horrors of the day.

The state also operated railroads, and they also contributed to the horror of the day. You might as well accuse them of medical experiments. Anyway, the social healthcare system was not used for experiments either. It certainly did not cover concentration camps abroad.

Midlands wrote:

The state also operated railroads, and they also contributed to the horror of the day. You might as well accuse them of medical experiments. Anyway, the social healthcare system was not used for experiments either. It certainly did not cover concentration camps abroad.

So to be clear, you are denying that the German medical community of the Weimar era had been conducting inhumane research for at least twenty years leading up to the Nazi era.

Informed consent wrote:

So to be clear, you are denying that the German medical community of the Weimar era had been conducting inhumane research for at least twenty years leading up to the Nazi era.

I'm not denying anything, I just never heard about anything like that in the 20 years before Hitler.

Midlands wrote:

I'm not denying anything, I just never heard about anything like that in the 20 years before Hitler.

Not heavily advertised, but it is a matter of public and historical record if you know where to look.
An obsession with the various schools of socialism collided with a new take on Darwinism that had many of the great powers of the day experimenting with some version of population control in tandem with an administrated state in hopes of one day engineering the perfect society, perfect human, or both.
Medical practice in those days had little in the way of coded ethics, or oversight compared to today's standards.
Combine that with the philosophy of racial hygiene, and you had a recipe for holocaust.
It could have happened almost anywhere in the west, but it would be Germany that ran the eugenics ball to its logical and bloody conclusion.

Midlands wrote:

No! It does not have 99% survival rate. It's a vicious lie. 3% of Indian population died of Covid. Despite being younger than Western populations and having a functional healthcare system (that got overwhelmed but still did a lot to save people). More important (in the long term) is that full recovery rate is much lower. E.g. a large proportion of infected people have permanent brain damage. Future economic costs of all that will be enormous.

Yes, it does. Barely anyone has died from COVID it's self. It's their own comorbidities that do them in.

Midlands wrote:

No, that's patently true. No proper clinical study showed any benefit from Hydroxychloroquine. It was rejected because it does not work (while having serious side effects). You just assert falsehoods without showing any clinical studies to support them.

Wrong. Why don't you go examine the prices of drugs of hydroxychloroquine?

Midlands wrote:

Yes, it's your choice as long as you don't go out in public. Just as it's your choice to drink or not as long as you don't drive on public roads.

And yes, vaccines are effective and have already saved over a million Americans.

That's not your decision to make.

Midlands wrote:

Yes, it's your choice as long as you don't go out in public. Just as it's your choice to drink or not as long as you don't drive on public roads.

And yes, vaccines are effective and have already saved over a million Americans.

Perhaps, if you ignore that the majority of current cases are coming from the vaccinated population, which makes statistical sense in the face that almost anywhere you go now nine out of ten of us are shot with at least one booster.
The "stop the spread" narrative has been mathematically rendered into ridiculousness as cases have continued to rise despite all of the measures taken, and ironically using the US as an example, those states who have been the most draconic in their mitigation measures are exhibiting the worst statistical performance overall.
It is not a coincidence that the emigration of Americans out of blue states, which has already been a strong trend for years due to socioeconomic pressures, has significantly increased over the last two years due to people seeing for themselves in real time that they are not only not more safe, but are significantly less safe by comparison to those living in red states.
We not only have not stopped the spread, we never even slowed it down.

All of that being said, one thing that can be said about the vaccines used thus far, is that they do have a hand in determining how brief your stay, and how improved your condition is coming out of your subsequent hospital visits if you were unfortunate enough to be infected with a new variant of Covid.
Though to be fair, it is still even money on whether your own antibodies developed from previous exposure, or the shot helped more.

Your drunk driving metaphor makes little sense when you account for how polluted the environment is with Covid-19.
As an artificial disaster, it makes more sense to say that someone had exploded the local dam and flooded the streets, so drunk or sober, any two drivers were more likely to drown in their car long before they could smash into each other.

Informed consent wrote:

Perhaps, if you ignore that the majority of current cases are coming from the vaccinated population, which makes statistical sense in the face that almost anywhere you go now nine out of ten of us are shot with at least one booster.
The "stop the spread" narrative has been mathematically rendered into ridiculousness as cases have continued to rise despite all of the measures taken, and ironically using the US as an example, those states who have been the most draconic in their mitigation measures are exhibiting the worst statistical performance overall.
It is not a coincidence that the emigration of Americans out of blue states, which has already been a strong trend for years due to socioeconomic pressures, has significantly increased over the last two years due to people seeing for themselves in real time that they are not only not more safe, but are significantly less safe by comparison to those living in red states.
We not only have not stopped the spread, we never even slowed it down.

All of that being said, one thing that can be said about the vaccines used thus far, is that they do have a hand in determining how brief your stay, and how improved your condition is coming out of your subsequent hospital visits if you were unfortunate enough to be infected with a new variant of Covid.
Though to be fair, it is still even money on whether your own antibodies developed from previous exposure, or the shot helped more.

Your drunk driving metaphor makes little sense when you account for how polluted the environment is with Covid-19.
As an artificial disaster, it makes more sense to say that someone had exploded the local dam and flooded the streets, so drunk or sober, any two drivers were more likely to drown in their car long before they could smash into each other.

In my opinion, I don't think the shots do any good. if anything they reduce your immune system.

The anarcho-capitalist lands of kool-aid wrote:

In my opinion, I don't think the shots do any good. if anything they reduce your immune system.

I would not go that far.
While the field efficacy of any of the vaccines has not exceeded 50%, they have still been very beneficial to those with issues relating to immunosuppression. Chiefly the elderly.
Also, an argument over whether natural or vaccine activated antibodies are superior is largely moot, because there is no consistency from one person to the next in the strength and duration of natural antibody production, which at the very least makes a vaccine a better than nothing backup if you are not testing yourself every month for antibodies and not sure how robust your system is.
That being said, do what you think is best for you.

My problem with this pandemic is that starting from day one, a hard political stance was adopted by the "don't let a crisis go to waste" crowd along with the CCP apologists that continually suppressed forensic considerations for political ones.
A personality cult was built around Dr. Fauci that carried the water for social engineers who screwed around with peoples lives just because they could.
I call it Operation Fear Porn, because it was essentially an exercise in political masturbation for authoritarians who have wet dreams about taking advantage of situations like these.
There simply is no objective standard of justification that excuses the level of coercion employed, as well as the level many authorities had hoped to employ against the various citizenries around the world.

We did not need to close schools, or force kids who are the least vulnerable to Covid to live almost 24/7 in a face mask that offered no significant protection in the first place, or force them to get shots that were the least beneficial and most potentially harmful for the 12 and under age group.
The less said about the commercial flight fascists that had people masking in between bites and sips of their refreshments in one of the most sterile air regulated environments outside of a laboratory, the better.

I close with this warning.
Before you get hung up on the abuses of power by officials, take a long hard look at your neighbors.
The biggest problem with wannabe dictators, is not the dictator, but the multitude of people waiting in the arena who will flood the stage with adoration as they divest all of their irrational fears on the rest of us because they are too weak, stupid, or lazy to police their own anxieties instead of policing other people's thoughts.

Gelth confederacy wrote:

Yes, it does. Barely anyone has died from COVID it's self. It's their own comorbidities that do them in.

Sorry, but this willfully ignorant nonsense. This is really pathetic. Once again, real world events exposed your libertarian beliefs as the ridiculous and dangerous drivel that they are, and once again, instead of reacting rationally, admitting (at least to yourself) that you were wrong and revising your beliefs, you just deny the reality.

Gelth confederacy wrote:

Wrong. Why don't you go examine the prices of drugs of hydroxychloroquine?

What do prices have anything to do with the scientifically proven fact that it does not work against Covid?!

Gelth confederacy wrote:

That's not your decision to make.

It is the society's decision to make.

Miranorte wrote:

I am a Russian, are you?

Formerly.

The anarcho-capitalist lands of kool-aid wrote:

In my opinion, I don't think the shots do any good. if anything they reduce your immune system.

In your opinion, is the Earth flat?

Informed consent wrote:

I would not go that far.
While the field efficacy of any of the vaccines has not exceeded 50%, they have still been very beneficial to those with issues relating to immunosuppression. Chiefly the elderly.
Also, an argument over whether natural or vaccine activated antibodies are superior is largely moot, because there is no consistency from one person to the next in the strength and duration of natural antibody production, which at the very least makes a vaccine a better than nothing backup if you are not testing yourself every month for antibodies and not sure how robust your system is.
That being said, do what you think is best for you.

My problem with this pandemic is that starting from day one, a hard political stance was adopted by the "don't let a crisis go to waste" crowd along with the CCP apologists that continually suppressed forensic considerations for political ones.
A personality cult was built around Dr. Fauci that carried the water for social engineers who screwed around with peoples lives just because they could.
I call it Operation Fear Porn, because it was essentially an exercise in political masturbation for authoritarians who have wet dreams about taking advantage of situations like these.
There simply is no objective standard of justification that excuses the level of coercion employed, as well as the level many authorities had hoped to employ against the various citizenries around the world.

We did not need to close schools, or force kids who are the least vulnerable to Covid to live almost 24/7 in a face mask that offered no significant protection in the first place, or force them to get shots that were the least beneficial and most potentially harmful for the 12 and under age group.
The less said about the commercial flight fascists that had people masking in between bites and sips of their refreshments in one of the most sterile air regulated environments outside of a laboratory, the better.

I close with this warning.
Before you get hung up on the abuses of power by officials, take a long hard look at your neighbors.
The biggest problem with wannabe dictators, is not the dictator, but the multitude of people waiting in the arena who will flood the stage with adoration as they divest all of their irrational fears on the rest of us because they are too weak, stupid, or lazy to police their own anxieties instead of policing other people's thoughts.

Actually we have no idea what long term effect Covid will have on children. 75% of whom got infected. We already know that a large percentage of the infected people suffer permanent brain damage, But we don't know what other long-term consequence the infected children may suffer. E.g we may be forever out of the business of fighting land wars. And the future health care costs...

Midlands wrote:

Actually we have no idea what long term effect Covid will have on children. 75% of whom got infected. We already know that a large percentage of the infected people suffer permanent brain damage, But we don't know what other long-term consequence the infected children may suffer. E.g we may be forever out of the business of fighting land wars. And the future health care costs...

I know that the demand for artificial juvenile hearts is up 2,000% over 3 years ago due directly to covid vaccines.

Midlands wrote:

Sorry, but this willfully ignorant nonsense. This is really pathetic. Once again, real world events exposed your libertarian beliefs as the ridiculous and dangerous drivel that they are, and once again, instead of reacting rationally, admitting (at least to yourself) that you were wrong and revising your beliefs, you just deny the reality.

It's wilfully ignorant to take into account the role of comorbidites exacerbated by the flu? Lol?

I'm not even a libertarian, and all you can do is attack the facts on face value without even discussing them.

Midlands wrote:

What do prices have anything to do with the scientifically proven fact that it does not work against Covid?!

Pharmaceutical companies are out to make a profit, and so are politicians who get kick backs.

Midlands wrote:

It is the society's decision to make.

Wrong.

Midlands wrote:

In your opinion, is the Earth flat?

See, you're once again mocking a countering opinion on face value. Rather than rebuttaling.

Why are you even in this region if you're not interested in neither discourse, nor capitalism?

FASTERCAT wrote:

I know that the demand for artificial juvenile hearts is up 2,000% over 3 years ago due directly to covid vaccines.

What?!

Gelth confederacy wrote:

It's wilfully ignorant to take into account the role of comorbidites exacerbated by the flu? Lol?

I'm not even a libertarian, and all you can do is attack the facts on face value without even discussing them.

Ignorant and immoral. It's like pointing out that the murder victim had comorbidities. Totally irrelevant, and the clear implications are immoral.