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Of course, I can always try to figure out justifications for us not getting directly involved in the war to avoid canon disruptions. Or limited involvement. |
Yes, that's a very good point. In my opinion, as soon as the Cybusians are involved, much less the Timmies, Wagains, or Formosans, the Third Imperium is already dead. There are a number of ways they could fight their way to a negotiated settlement, but it would require long-term planning, and an end to the brinkmanship which is currently hurtling towards disaster. I had discussed with Orson the possibility of Denis Amnen being removed from power, perhaps by a targeted commando raid, though Bran Jaina could just as well seize power for himself, thereby placing a cooler head in command. I'm not sure what Orson's vision was for Jaina's eventual rise to power, though I know it is assured by the 2030s. |
I think Jania seizing power and fighting his way to a settlement would be effective. If he could contain the internal threats, he could potentially negotiate his way into maintaining control of part of Orsonian Africa, though this would have to occur before we get involved. |
I'm honestly not opposed to a complete reworking of the canon, including Cybusian involvement against the Bangui Government. I'd really like to simplify this time period of my history, which has grown convoluted with too many competing factions in my opinion. There's realistically no way the EWC could contain it's brinkmanship, and even Jaina couldn't stop it. Turner's calculated and cautious leadership prevented this from happening to Orson before, but he's out of the picture now, and the lunatics are now running the asylum. |
The West Africans, with less exhaustion in the early war from casualties thanks to mass proliferation of war robots lessening our need to mass mobilize, are provoked enough by the events of 2022 to be fully willing to press on to total victory. If a battle of Ngaoundere happened now, we'd press on through the hellish flames, geysers of steam boiling men alive, and poisonous smoke till we'd eventually brawl our way slowly to Jaina himself and I doubt our soldiers would be willing to capture him and would just shoot him on sight. |
Sometimes I think the main takeaway from this war is never fight a land war in West Africa... good luck making it back to tell the tale |
Probably About on the same scale of things as whacking a mother bear's cub with a stick in terms of unlikelihood of making back out alive. |
Can't disagree with that, lol. I don't think there would be a chance for a Battle of Ngaoundere in this new timeline. As soon as the Malians start making major gains on Orsonian territory, the EWC would begin using nuclear weapons- another way for Cybusian intervention to occur. |
I was considering having the Federal Union request direct Cybusian intervention, on grounds that the Bangui Government will never surrender and is fully willing to use nuclear weapons if left with no other options. Additionally, a clandestine plan exists to destroy all major Orsonian cities with nukes as a last resort if Orson is facing total defeat, and target major cities across the world with strikes- basically "if I can't have it, no one can" regarding world domination. The Federal Union could provide Cybusian forces with locations of all nuclear silos in Orson for orbital bombardment, alongside Strategic Command's headquarters at the Annapurna Strategic Facility. What do you think? |
If you want to take some more inspiration from Ace Combat, maybe during such an intervention a few elite imperial pilots could manage to take off with their smaller fighter-launched tactical nukes before their bases were destroyed and not having enough nukes to enact their full plan, could decide to all attempt to rush for Ravenwood to punish the Federal Union for "Selling Orson into Cybusian Slavery" and then being intercepted by Starlight Squadron(Considering what they would go through a few months prior near Cabo Verde, they would have priority for the Sea Knight upgrades and be among those few available in those couple months following the battle with the Adani that could possibly provide any support to the Imperial Union's forces in Australia) en route forcing them to engage Starlight as Starlight's Icarus missiles could at close ranges intercept the air-launched nuclear missiles if they tried to just launch them. However, in practical terms Starlight wouldn't be responsible for saving Ravenwood -- by the time they'd reach range to let loose odds are the Cybusians' own fighters would've had time to descend from orbit to easily shoot them down(or even ships in orbit might have time to get firm locks to precision target them like they would a missile)... But the dogfight would capture the imaginations of the public to be sure, and perhaps Hope Squadron could be changed to be formed as a permanent peacekeeper squadron (Which would mean it would actively be involved with the Coalition Fleet in the First Redlight Incursion instead of only participating in strikes against infected planets periodically.) inspired by the exploits of Starlight Squadron in 2022. Ibrahim instead of becoming a space ace, becoming known as the father of the CSF after rising through the ranks in peacetime as a brilliant officer being responsible for establishing the early Training, Tactics, and Doctrine of the CSF and maybe could also have been an important person in normalizing Orsonian-Cybusian Relations and West African-Cybusian Relations during his time in Hope squadron rotating between friendly countries. |
I do like this idea, and could easily imagine loyalist pilots deciding to "punish" Ravenwood with nuclear strikes. A consequence of this intervention, however, is that the Cybusians would be despised in Orson for generations, on an even more intense level than in the current canon. A reconciliation may not be possible for a long time. |
Saving the capital from death in nuclear fire would make us be hated? |
I meant the entire intervention in general. Cybusian soldiers being deployed on Orsonian soil would validate the fears of countless conspiracy theorists- from their viewpoint it's what they've been warning about for decades. |
Year: 2008 The volume of concrete would be equivalent to 1,692 hoover dams and create a million construction jobs for the decade it'd take to complete. While surely a huge boon to the national defense, the fortifications would permanently leave a number of huge concrete scars stretching from the Southern coast to the Marmaran Border and cause large disruptions in east-west wildlife migrations of land animals and require thousands of kilometers of roads to be modified to accommodate the fortifications. Given the cost, length of time it'd take to construct, and the environmental impacts -- it's likely that this proposal will be rejected in favor of large numbers of mutually-supporting defensive fighting positions preemptively dug out along with blasting new trench lines and improving them with the latest innovations in materials.. But it's possible that these types of fortifications -- artificial reverse slopes -- will be implemented on smaller scales at vital points. |
OOC: In hindsight, it seems the Malians should have adopted this strategy. It may have made the entire border virtually impenetrable- it takes months just to siege and occupy one of these embankments. Air strikes or missile strikes are also not an option due to advancements in AA technology. However, if the Malians had started building these, I think WW3 would have happened years earlier. The Orsonians would be motivated to launch a pre-emptive strike before the fortifications are fully in place. |
Also, I'm thinking WW3 ends in 2023 now, with the Cybusians intervening to destroy Orson's nuclear weapons and probably bombarding entire Imperial Army divisions into dust. The Bangui Government is toast in this scenario, and I can't see Amnen or Jaina surviving that. So, the Third Imperium is retconned, and La Palea wouldn't occur. However, civil war in Orson continues for several years, as the Federal Union works to mop up Imperial remnant forces with international aid. The Mamarans also need to deal with a Sasanid insurgency once they recover their territory. Nevertheless, while the Empire may be gone, its legacy of authoritarian rule would linger for generations. The Federal Union (and its Federation successor) will have to manage reactionaries trying to return Orson back to its "glory days", alongside monarchists who view the new regime as illegitimate. |
If we could've built them on a time table of five years instead of ten, then we probably would've pushed ahead regardless of the environmental impacts and the cost. I mean, we probably could've technically -- but not in political reality. Rushing such a project to be completed twice as fast as projected would leave around 100,000 people dead or permanently disabled from construction accidents. A construction project, regardless of how important to the national defense, cannot be tolerated to inflict such unacceptable casualties. |
100,000 dead? Yeah, I can see why opposition to this plan would exist, not to mention the extreme environmental damage. I've also realized that, if implemented, this would be the most expensive construction project in history (costing about ten times as much as the International Space Station for comparison). |
That figure is the lower estimate, the higher estimate is 189,504. Which is a multiplication of the figure for how many hoover dams it is equivalent to by 112 deaths per hoover dam equivalent (the historical number of construction deaths for the Hoover Dam's five year construction project. Or at least the number reported and listed anyway, probably higher.) |
Ahh, I see. I think that number would be much lower in the modern era. The Hoover Dam was constructed at a time where workers protection laws were severely lacking compared to now, which explains why so many of those old projects had large death counts. |
Even if you cut it significantly it'd still be quite a lot. 1/10th of the original lower estimate (Which is nearly half the larger already) is still ~10,000, 1/100th is still ~1,000. But it also costs 1/7th of our 2020 GDP(which would be larger than in 2008 when the project was proposed), would have large scale environmental impacts, would disrupt the economic buildup measures being put in place by the Camara administration by having over a million people working on the project instead of working in the rest of the economy, and would create major pressure for the Orsonians to conduct a preemptive strike prior to the completion of the project. Although, for things like fortifying the flanks of the static defense lines to better anchor them against being rolled up from either the north or south instead of just covering the entire front length multiple times these artificial reverse slopes would be quite useful and practical to construct. |
I don't know why the idea or motivation randomly came to me, but I'm going to be working on a dispatch for Skedoria that will tell the story of the Queen's last operation within the Armed Forces of the Holy Skedar Empire. It will be typed out from the perspective of the Queen herself (as a personal memoir of the events) and will be somewhat of an expansion of the nation's lore. |
Sounds interesting Fel! I did read your factbooks about the Queen awhile back and enjoyed it- you really gave life and personality to the Skedar, which was lacking in the original Perfect Dark game. |
 Echoes of Alora —A Memoir by Queen Tal'Navi— For years the outer colony of Alora seemed to teeter on the brink of civil war, but we were too preoccupied with the affairs of our own conflict to see the eventual rise of the Insurrectionists. By the time the rebels launched their guerrilla campaign across the colony, our war with the Maians had been raging across the stars for nearly three and a half centuries. Our forces were wearing thin, but the military refused to let Alora fall to "such savages", lest we wish to spend eternity in Sha'Turahn with the wicked and damned for our failure. With that said, it didn't take long for the 83rd to be deployed to support the 91st Mobile Infantry Division in fortifying the capital and protecting the Empire's mining and farming operations there...I can still remember the day our fleet departed for the system, almost as if it were yesterday. We were briefed on our generalized mission objectives while en route, and it should have been a routine support operation...but things almost went terribly wrong just about as quickly as our arrival was. As soon as we entered Realspace, we came under heavy fire from anti-orbital weapon emplacements on the surface. Of the twenty Assault Ships that entered the system, two had been destroyed by the initial attack, while another four were disabled and left to drift in orbit by the second barrage. Luckily for us, their shuttle and interceptor complements had successfully managed to depart from their hangar bays and survived long enough to escort us as we entered the atmosphere. Shortly thereafter, we were ferried down to the capital in shuttles, where we were to be given further orders from the Governor and what remained of the Loyalist Military. The first thing I noticed when walking out of the shuttle was the eerie silence of the city streets, almost as if it had been deserted before our arrival - though it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that it was placed under lockdown and its citizens ordered to remain indoors until further notice. I didn't dwell on the thought for long as we all soon gathered in the building's rotunda, where a holoprojection of the capital and surrounding lands were used to point out locations of interest, such as potential entryways for the rebels to approach the city from and where we would defend it. To serve as a last line of defense before the capital itself could be reached, our surviving forces were split up and divided among a series of military bases surrounding the city, where we would conduct routine surveillance and patrol operations in an effort to learn where the rebels may have been hiding. I was deployed as part of a platoon of fifty to a military outpost, designated "Valor", north of the city within the Andes Mountains; had the circumstances of our presence on the planet been different, I would have actually enjoyed my stay there. Upon my arrival at Valor Outpost, I was placed in command of a squad of recruits by my superiors—a first in my time in the Army—and tasked with carrying out reconnaissance missions within the surrounding area. Things would go accordingly for the next few weeks, with the trips to and from the base becoming a new addition to my daily routine, though something about the lack of rebel activity seemed off and irked me in a way I had never experienced before. Given how quickly the Insurrectionists had spread across the colony, it just didn't make any sense as to why their advancement halted beyond the borders of the capital. We tried to pass the time and forget about our worries by telling stories about our lives while out on patrol, getting to know one another now that we were serving together, but things always seemed unnecessarily tense; almost as if we were being watched from afar...One day, my squad went beyond the mountain passage to collect information on the lands beyond our intended range of deployment; the far reaches of Kaepir's Hollow eventually led us into view of the Burning Wilds, a forest of silver-leafed trees known for appearing as a sea of flames due to their unique capability of reflecting sunlight, but we dared not venture further in fear of failing to report back to base on time and potentially being branded deserters. We quickly turned around to make our way back through Kaepir's Hollow, however we didn't even make it halfway when the first wave of enemies attacked. We were passing through just as we had done minutes earlier, when a sniper picked off our youngest recruit, Olrus Kalrun; a male from the Aloran Loyalist Forces who desperately wanted the war to end so he could return to his family on the other side of the planet. All it took was a single round to put him out of commission. A SINGLE round to catch us off guard...As soon as his body hit the ground, it was as if Sha'Turahn had come to welcome us into its hateful embrace at that very moment. Before we could fully register what had happened, the mountains and our immediate surroundings erupted into a wall of gunfire and explosions as Insurrectionist forces had us surrounded on all sides, with the sole exception being the entrance leading into and out of the passage. I attempted to fire off super-charged shots of Solusian gas from my Mauler into the treeline while making my way towards cover, but each volley missed their targets and tore into the hardened steel-like trunks of the Iola trees - leaving nothing but gaping holes in their wake. One by one, the members of my squad were slowly getting picked off by the rebels, and a wave of guilt rushed over me as I ordered for a retreat...no time to take care of our dead. No time to mourn. All that had mattered was our survival. Despite my best efforts to lead the team out of Kaepir's Hollow without issue, the world seemed to blur in and out of existence temporarily as my adrenaline levels soared to levels I had never seen before. As the rush of excitement and fear washed over me, I soon found myself in the crossfire of the battlefield as I had turned back to aid a wounded soldier onto her feet. As she stood up, I had barely managed to register the appearance of a laser sight that was trained on her heart and knew that I had very little time to react. I quickly used my Bio-Mechanical Suit's powerful legs to grab and throw her out of the way, and almost as instantly as I threw her, an anti-tank round tore through my armor, bypassing my already weakened shields entirely and causing everything to go cold and dark...Having your Bio-Mechanical Suit disabled while still being alive is the closest you can ever get to feeling what it is like being deceased. The complexities of the symbiosis formed from the connection of the neurological components of the Warrior and their machine make such a feat plausible, and as fascinating as it is, I would never wish the experience on anyone. By the time I regained consciousness, my surroundings were completely different from where I had remembered being; I was suspended in a vat of medicinal liquid found exclusively on Alora - something I had never really learned the name of, but something that I was lucky enough to be treated with under the circumstances. Fortunately for me, my troops had managed to escape Kaepir's Hollow and dragged little old me back to Valor Outpost, where I was given immediate medical care. What took me a while to cope with was the fact that the anti-tank round had torn right through my left leg, ripping it clean off my body and left me bleeding out within my Bio-Mechanical Suit. Had the recruits left me behind, I would have certainly died from the blood loss if the Insurrectionists didn't get to me first...With that said, however, things didn't stay all nice and somewhat peachy. Hours passed before the outpost was attacked by the rebels, who had tracked us back to our base, and my platoon struggled to fend them off as a distress beacon was activated in the hopes that the capital would respond in time. Being stuck and helpless in a medical tank made the fighting seem to drag on for forever, so I cannot accurately estimate the time that had passed until reinforcements finally arrived. When they did arrive, though, the battle came to a swift and decisive end. From what I can recall, as best as I could make out from within the tank at least, they wanted to investigate the Insurrectionist buildup in and beyond Kaepir's Hollow; as for me, they deemed me unfit for combat and had me immediately transferred back to the capital to be treated within a proper medical facility. Days would pass and I eventually received the news from my superiors that I was being honorably discharged due to the increasing threat of an invasion on the capital and my inability to serve for the foreseeable future. While I was not really surprised by the decision, it wasn't an easy one to agree with given my close relations with the recruits and fellow Warriors. Unfortunately for me, my thoughts on the matter didn't matter much and I wasn't given time to say farewell, as I was quickly shuttled off-world alongside other injured troops and civilians; by then, the Loyalists and the remnants of the 83rd and 91st planned a massive defensive campaign to protect the capital and didn't want any unnecessary casualties to be caused by the fighting. As our ship departed from the planet's surface, I had managed to catch a glimpse of a detachment from the famed Sentinel Fleet entering Realspace in order to aid in the defense of the capital and any future attempts to take back rebel-controlled lands. In all honesty, as much as I had grown apart from the Imperial agenda by that point in time, there was something about seeing a near-mythical force such as the Sentinel Fleet that instilled in me a sense of pride and honor...the only time something like that had happened while under service of the Empire. Following the so called "War for Alora", I had returned to the Imperial capital and received a series of awards from the government for my service, though the only thing I received that I truly cared for was the medical benefits given to the honorably discharged and retired veterans. With said benefits, I was able to not only be treated by the Empire's best doctors, but I also acquired a synthetic leg shortly thereafter to have my life return to a sense of normalcy. While I never did end up meeting my former subordinates and fellow Warriors in the years since I left the Army, I was inspired by their bravery and willingness to risk their lives for my own. From that point on, I had a more positive outlook on life and followed my passion of helping others and bringing about change within the Empire; these aspirations for change led me down the path of my political career and eventually to where I am now...and for that, I'm forever thankful. Finally finished the dispatch for Skedoria. As mentioned in my last post, it tells the story of Queen Tal'Navi's last operation within the Imperial Armed Forces and is told from her perspective. I don't know if it is actually good or not, but I hope it's at least somewhat of a decent read. |
Excellent work, Fel! The first-person testimonial style is very interesting, really contributing a new perspective to the events described. Reading through it really feels like I'm combing over a historical text from a distant age, almost like a sci fi novel. These are some pretty considerable changes, Orson! I really look forward to what new canon ideas you come up with, and hope you'll share them with the region once everything is finalized. I do think there are ways to find a middle ground, so the wartime Orsonian split is preserved, but maybe not at the same scale or permanence as before. The Treaty of Luanda could be re-imagined as a way to keep the peace in the postwar Orsonian realm, setting up its transition into a federal democracy and implementing the comprehensive de-Turnerization at every level of society. I'm thinking something like the Treaty of San Francisco, which would formally end any ongoing occupations, open the door for war crimes trials, and possibly even commit the State of Orson to armed neutrality for a period of years. I think the Cybusian entry into the conflict has a lot of potential, though I'm not sure it needs to end with the complete evisceration of the Imperial Military. It's only been a short period of time since the arguable 'turning point' of the war (the Javand-Pallas alliance, the death of Turner, the failure to seize Constantinople, etc), and it seems somewhat unjust to have the considerable progress of the Orsonians overturned practically overnight. From a canon perspective, it would also make sense for puppet states like the Sassanian Empire to have a year or two to really establish themselves, previewing the later organized insurgencies in the region. Perhaps the coup is still successful in our timeline, but the rebel forces manage to regroup and hold out for a year or two more, making the Third Orson Civil War more or less the second half of the broader world war. Instead of bombarding the rebel forces into oblivion, the Cybusians could work with the Malians to design something like a hyper-intelligent AI to infiltrate Orsonian nuclear command and neuter it from the inside, averting apocalypse. It's the same heroic final stand as before, but without the massive intervention that would make Cybus a pariah state for decades, which seems like too high a price to pay for peace. So, in a rough order, this is the sequence of events that I've imagined: 1. Start of Third World War: The final culmination of Turner's Grand Plan. Orsonian forces make strong early progress, and begin establishing puppet states like the Sassanian Empire to administer newly-conquered territory. Only the Malian front holds firm. 2. Orsonian Constitution Restored: In the wake of Turner's untimely death, Adrian Javand is elected Prime Minister, and begins to gradually restore political freedoms. Relations with the outside world begin to thaw, for instance in the Tahiti Accords. 3. Coup in Bangui: A culmination of economic crisis, a slowing war effort, and a vacuum in leadership following the death of Turner causes senior elements of the Imperial Military to break from the Ravenwood government. Taking field command of nuclear weapons, they briefly escalate the war to the closest it has ever come to nuclear holocaust. 4. Cybusian Intervention: Responding to an emergency appeal from the Entente, the Cybusian government launches a massive cyber-offensive against Orsonian strategic command, which, combined with a targeted orbital 'iron dome,' prevents the war from being nuclear. Mutinying soldiers and puppet governments control large parts of the Orsonian realm, but are restricted to conventional weapons. 5. Treaty of Federation: In an urgent summit Santa Catalina, Javand and Jerick Pallas shake hands and soon sign a formal treaty declaring the creation of a unity government. Unprecedented reforms take place within Orson, including the abolition of the monarchy and the signing of peace agreements between the Ravenwood government and the Entente powers. 6. Orsonian Civil Conflict: The Third World War enters its second phase, shifting from inter-state warfare to an increasingly irregular campaign of suppression against the remnants of the Imperial Military (led by a competent commander in Bran Jaina) and puppet governments like Sassania. This phase lasts for several more years at a somewhat smaller scale, though decisive engagements like Ngaoundere still occur. 7. Treaty of Luanda: The Third World War ends sometime in the mid-2020s, with the capture of Bangui and the death of Bran Jaina. The last flames of Aturoism are extinguished, though it continues to cast a long shadow over Orsonian politics. At the Treaty of Luanda, the Entente powers meet with the Ravenwood government and formally settle all wartime disputes, while laying out a roadmap for postwar tribunals and the rebuilding of the State of Orson. 8. Looking to the Future: Peace and relative freedom returns to the Orsonian realm for the first time in thirty years, and the world begins to rebuild from the ashes of a deeply traumatic conflict. The Cold War alliances which have prevailed since the mid-1990s are re-imagined, and the Orsonian State (later Federation) eventually takes its place as a constitutional great power once more. In 2040, an Orsonian is elected Secretary-General of the UCP in a symbolic passing of the torch to a new generation. The Pax Orsonica is established, as the Federation prepares to expand into the cosmos. |
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