PhilosophersBoard

I was doing some snooping around (forgive) in your predecessor region, and it was quite old. I think the beginning of the RMB was when NS began saving RMBs, rather than just letting the previous discussion slip away into oblivion? I may be mistaken. But, if so, do you all know when the region was founded? Or, do you know how the region came together, and how the early folks coalesced around the idea of a region built around debate? Is that even how you would characterize the place?

Refugee Arks wrote:

I was doing some snooping around (forgive) in your predecessor region, and it was quite old. I think the beginning of the RMB was when NS began saving RMBs, rather than just letting the previous discussion slip away into oblivion? I may be mistaken. But, if so, do you all know when the region was founded? Or, do you know how the region came together, and how the early folks coalesced around the idea of a region built around debate? Is that even how you would characterize the place?

The old region was founded on 10 February 2005. The catalyst was the founder Dr George, a lecturer in philosophy at a university in South Carolina, USA, but there were many other regular contributors over the years, several of whom are with us here. There were bursts of activity when people got interested in a discussion, followed by occasional lulls. Philosophers was established after the founder of Philosophy 115 ceased to exist.

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Roe v. Wade has been overturned.

Not something I expected to see happen.

Archadon wrote:

Roe v. Wade has been overturned.

Not something I expected to see happen.

Indeed not, so what next? Carry a loaded gun wherever you want, I’ll bet.

Sunrise Trail wrote:

Indeed not, so what next? Carry a loaded gun wherever you want, I’ll bet.

As a woman, I'll conceal carry. And I'll probably sterlize myself. But I saw this happening back in 2016. And I'm pissed that people thought other things were more important.

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Sunrise Trail wrote:

The old region was founded on 10 February 2005. The catalyst was the founder Dr George, a lecturer in philosophy at a university in South Carolina, USA, but there were many other regular contributors over the years, several of whom are with us here. There were bursts of activity when people got interested in a discussion, followed by occasional lulls. Philosophers was established after the founder of Philosophy 115 ceased to exist.

Dr George was an actual doctor of philosophy? I wouldn't have guessed. That must have made for quite a regional experience, having such a founder.

I'm less concerned about gun issues (the NRA has pretty much had its way for decades now, and the much lauded recent legislation on guns is pathetic) but I am concerned the court will reverse hard earned gains by the LBGTQIA+ community and others. And I am concerned that the court has destroyed any vestige of non-partisanship it had.

Burrhus Frederic Skinner wrote:

I'm less concerned about gun issues (the NRA has pretty much had its way for decades now, and the much lauded recent legislation on guns is pathetic) but I am concerned the court will reverse hard earned gains by the LBGTQIA+ community and others. And I am concerned that the court has destroyed any vestige of non-partisanship it had.

Clarence Thomas is going to intentionally sought out LGBTQA civil liberties, and all I can say is that there will probably be a mass exodus of women and LGBTQA leaving the south and midwest, that is, if the recession doesn't tie them down.

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Pacific Northwest Territories wrote:

Clarence Thomas is going to intentionally sought out LGBTQA civil liberties, and all I can say is that there will probably be a mass exodus of women and LGBTQA leaving the south and midwest, that is, if the recession doesn't tie them down.

For those of us in the rest of the “western” world, what happens in the United States is crucial. I was going to say because of Ukraine, standing up for democracy, for free speech, though the US isn’t the most democratic or free it is militarily strong, where the rest of us standing alone are divided and weak.

Brexit was stupid, but the U.K. by itself doesn’t matter. Germany becoming reliant on Russia for its energy needs was the height of folly, but militarily Germany has been purposely weak. We have taken a United States committed to enlightenment values for granted, but no longer. The possible re-emergence of Trump brings despair.

The Republicans in the United States are bonkers. Those who vote for them do so willingly, buying into lies about stolen elections, and supporting gun-loving culture wars against what progressive cities and states hold dear.

The situation looks bleak. Is there a prospect that progressive forces in the US could turn things around?

Sunrise Trail wrote:

The situation looks bleak. Is there a prospect that progressive forces in the US could turn things around?

I would say it’s not likely, protesters get a bad reputation even when it is peaceful and people aren’t super excited about losing what little the have. Maybe, when we lose more we would be more willing to act.

Most are apt to letting politicians deal with politics, even if they are the least qualified to do so.

Should have changed the course of this river a long time ago. 💁🏽

Perhaps, do you have any suggestions?

Sunrise Trail wrote:

For those of us in the rest of the “western” world, what happens in the United States is crucial. I was going to say because of Ukraine, standing up for democracy, for free speech, though the US isn’t the most democratic or free it is militarily strong, where the rest of us standing alone are divided and weak.

Brexit was stupid, but the U.K. by itself doesn’t matter. Germany becoming reliant on Russia for its energy needs was the height of folly, but militarily Germany has been purposely weak. We have taken a United States committed to enlightenment values for granted, but no longer. The possible re-emergence of Trump brings despair.

The Republicans in the United States are bonkers. Those who vote for them do so willingly, buying into lies about stolen elections, and supporting gun-loving culture wars against what progressive cities and states hold dear.

The situation looks bleak. Is there a prospect that progressive forces in the US could turn things around?

The primaries are coming up. I hope now every citizen takes local elections more seriously. That is the only hope. But in the course of two days millions have protested in New York, Philadelphia and Los Angeles. However, there is talk of a possible Civil War emerging and its going to start with state law conflicts, notably these draconian abortion laws that can criminally prosecute anyone anywhere if they assist a citizen of that state and are protected by theirs. There's also still the emergence of bots masquerading as conservative idealists and pro-Trump supporters being Pro-Putin, Anti-Ukraine or both. The red states are becoming more anti-democratic as well. Arizona shot peaceful protesters who were against the Roe V Wade overturn.

Sunrise Trail
From POC only being 2/3 a person to woman not legally able to open a bank account until the 70s, America isn’t in the business of being fair. Hitler said his inspiration was the US and that should tell you everything you need to know about it. Maybe a progressive steps up, but honestly why bother? Our next big elections will be stolen either way. I’m with Pacific Northwest Territories supporting local elections for but the 2 party format hinders progress, specially in the Midwest where I live ( still trying to get the DFL to recognize more labor friendly varieties within the party).

Independent runners are great but it has its disadvantages. Let's say a very formidable candidate ran like Bernie Sanders as independent, but the Democratic Party pushed for Clinton. The voters would be split leading the majority vote going to Trump. Not to mention in the 2016 election when the DNC didn't back Sanders a lot of the millennial men demographic ended up voting for Trump or not voting because a woman was running, as well millennial women not voting at all. It diverged us from trying to defeat a tyrant. The other thing is money talks. Trump and Clinton had money and connections to run. If there was only a public funding for an independent it would be nice. But even so, if you had third party options most of the other parties in general had the weirdest candidates running or at the last minute appealed to demographic views and flipped flopped.

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Pacific Northwest Territories wrote:

Clarence Thomas is going to intentionally sought out LGBTQA civil liberties, and all I can say is that there will probably be a mass exodus of women and LGBTQA leaving the south and midwest, that is, if the recession doesn't tie them down.

Thomas would like that to happen, but he is alone.

'Writing for the majority, Justice Samuel Alito specifically decries the “unfounded fear that our decision will imperil those other rights [like Obergefell]” and draws a sharp distinction between abortion, which involves the taking of a life, and other cases and rights. “To ensure that our decision is not misunderstood or mischaracterized, we emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” he writes for the majority. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”

“It is hard to see how we could be clearer,” Alito concludes. “Moreover, even putting aside that these cases are distinguishable, there is a further point that the dissent ignores: Each precedent is subject to its own stare decisis analysis, and the factors that our doctrine instructs us to consider like reliance and workability are different for these cases than for our abortion jurisprudence.”'

Kavanaugh, wrote separately and agreed, Roberts would be a no, and ACB + Gorsuch signed onto Alito's statement, and Gorsuch also wrote the majority opinion on Bostock v. Clayton County just 2 years ago (saying lgbtq discrimination violates the civil rights act of 64.

So while I understand the fear, I don't think its founded.

Sunrise Trail wrote:

Indeed not, so what next? Carry a loaded gun wherever you want, I’ll bet.

I'm glad the NY law got overturned tbh, it was used to blatantly discriminate and prevent poor people and minorities from being able to protect themselves.

Pacific Northwest Territories wrote:

Independent runners are great but it has its disadvantages. Let's say a very formidable candidate ran like Bernie Sanders as independent, but the Democratic Party pushed for Clinton. The voters would be split leading the majority vote going to Trump. Not to mention in the 2016 election when the DNC didn't back Sanders a lot of the millennial men demographic ended up voting for Trump or not voting because a woman was running, as well millennial women not voting at all. It diverged us from trying to defeat a tyrant. The other thing is money talks. Trump and Clinton had money and connections to run. If there was only a public funding for an independent it would be nice. But even so, if you had third party options most of the other parties in general had the weirdest candidates running or at the last minute appealed to demographic views and flipped flopped.

Archadon wrote:

Thomas would like that to happen, but he is alone.

'Writing for the majority, Justice Samuel Alito specifically decries the “unfounded fear that our decision will imperil those other rights [like Obergefell]” and draws a sharp distinction between abortion, which involves the taking of a life, and other cases and rights. “To ensure that our decision is not misunderstood or mischaracterized, we emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” he writes for the majority. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”

“It is hard to see how we could be clearer,” Alito concludes. “Moreover, even putting aside that these cases are distinguishable, there is a further point that the dissent ignores: Each precedent is subject to its own stare decisis analysis, and the factors that our doctrine instructs us to consider like reliance and workability are different for these cases than for our abortion jurisprudence.”'

Kavanaugh, wrote separately and agreed, Roberts would be a no, and ACB + Gorsuch signed onto Alito's statement, and Gorsuch also wrote the majority opinion on Bostock v. Clayton County just 2 years ago (saying lgbtq discrimination violates the civil rights act of 64.

So while I understand the fear, I don't think its founded.

I'm glad the NY law got overturned tbh, it was used to blatantly discriminate and prevent poor people and minorities from being able to protect themselves.

You forget how crazy Alito can be. He literally quoted 13th century religious law to overturning Roe V. Wade. He, Thomas, Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett think on the same wavelengths.

Archadon. I read yesterday that Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch signalled that they would not reverse the supreme court’s landmark 1973 decision in Roe v Wade during confirmation hearings as well as in meetings with senators. In other words, they lied.

You say « I'm glad the NY law got overturned tbh, it was used to blatantly discriminate and prevent poor people and minorities from being able to protect themselves. » This makes no sense to me. It is beyond bonkers. Individuals in the US are in an arms race to « protect » themselves? The US has 23 times the rate of firearm homicide seen in Australia. Why not say nobody should carry guns? Get a decent police force. One that can be trusted not to shoot people they are trying to arrest for no reason.

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Sunrise Trail wrote:

Archadon. I read yesterday that Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch signalled that they would not reverse the supreme court’s landmark 1973 decision in Roe v Wade during confirmation hearings as well as in meetings with senators. In other words, they lied.

You say « I'm glad the NY law got overturned tbh, it was used to blatantly discriminate and prevent poor people and minorities from being able to protect themselves. » This makes no sense to me. It is beyond bonkers. Individuals in the US are in an arms race to « protect » themselves? The US has 23 times the rate of firearm homicide seen in Australia. Why not say nobody should carry guns? Get a decent police force. One that can be trusted not to shoot people they are trying to arrest for no reason.

The conservatives want the poor to be defenseless and kill each other.

That's why in Uvalde the police didn't go in to stop that school shooting. The police are not obligated to protect or intervene if they don't want to. Hell they're harassing a mother who ran in to get her kids out.

In Florida, I remember an abused wife and mother, who was also black, was carried a life sentence for using the "stand your ground law," correctly to stop her husband from coming in the house, but the state let George Zimmerman go for pursuing a kid, young teen Trevon Martin, to his house, shoot him in the back to death, while using that same law.

In reality, when these states, mostly Southern, have conceal carry, it is mostly to protect white people, whereas it purposely sets up to criminalize minorities.

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