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Grosseschnauzer

There was a time when Nazi emblems weren’t allowed in NS. The IDU has maintained that policy nonetheless.

Eldid

The Monarchical Republic of Christos

Eldid wrote:Hello guys!

Hello!

Gonhog

Sanctaria wrote:Next time, I'll let them take over the region and kick everyone out and ruin the region. And when you all ask "why did no one do anything" you can blame LOM.

That’s a bit harsh and unrealistic. We have an active founder for a reason.

The Democratic Federation of Lauchenoiria

Libertas Omnium Maximus wrote:Speaking of which, I am pretty sure my Facebook still says that troops are deployed in Lauchenioria. So, I should fix that ASAP

Yes, please do! :P

Algebron wrote:Ooookay, then. Anyway, hey, all. I'm working on the Foreign Relations section of my factbook and was wondering if folks would be willing to write a sentence or two summarizing our nations' relations (or longer, if you want)? Obviously no one has to if they don't want to, just think it would help with my country's worldbuilding and knowing where it fits in RP-wise.

Likewise, if you'd rather TG me and discuss things more directly then feel free! (Obviously anyone I've already discussed this with, feel free to ignore.)

When I have time I'll TG you.

Algebron

The Federal Republic of Libertas Omnium Maximus

Gonhog wrote:That’s a bit harsh and unrealistic. We have an active founder for a reason.

I have no issue ejecting a raider or Nazi or troll. This guy clearly fell onto the former catagory and his ejection was probably justified. I do have a problem with setting a precident for ejecting people before they do anything wrong in this region. But, sure, I guess that means that I am to blame when our region invariably is destroyed by raiders. Which, by the way, I realy doubt is going to happen.

The Transcathayan Empire of Trive 38

Algebron wrote:Ooookay, then. Anyway, hey, all. I'm working on the Foreign Relations section of my factbook and was wondering if folks would be willing to write a sentence or two summarizing our nations' relations (or longer, if you want)? Obviously no one has to if they don't want to, just think it would help with my country's worldbuilding and knowing where it fits in RP-wise.

Likewise, if you'd rather TG me and discuss things more directly then feel free! (Obviously anyone I've already discussed this with, feel free to ignore.)

We dislike communist nations but try to at least maintain trade and embassies.

Algebron

Outside of RP, this whole thing here raises an interesting question IMO. Why isn't the hammer-and-sickle treated like the swastika? I mean, not to do the tired "both sides" shtick that we all hate, but I think it's still fair to point out that Marxist-Leninist regimes have had a less than stellar history in terms of repression and body counts. Obviously those regimes did mellow out quite a bit over time, but the questionable histories remain.

(Obviously this is ignoring the actual ideals of the two, as there's no question that Communist ideology is far more noble than the Nazis--stateless society sounds much better than genocide IMO--but is more just about similarity of methods, historically-speaking.)

Trive 38 and Shuell

The Federal Republic of Libertas Omnium Maximus

Algebron wrote:Outside of RP, this whole thing here raises an interesting question IMO. Why isn't the hammer-and-sickle treated like the swastika? I mean, not to do the tired "both sides" shtick that we all hate, but I think it's still fair to point out that Marxist-Leninist regimes have had a less than stellar history in terms of repression and body counts. Obviously those regimes did mellow out quite a bit over time, but the questionable histories remain.

(Obviously this is ignoring the actual ideals of the two, as there's no question that Communist ideology is far more noble than the Nazis--stateless society sounds much better than genocide IMO--but is more just about similarity of methods, historically-speaking.)

Interesting question. I guess the swastica has become associated with specifically hitler and the hulacost. The hammer and sycle on the other hand, is realy associated with the Communist movement as a whole, not just the Stalin/Lenin freakshow.

Christos and Algebron

The ✨Interstellar Commonwealth✨ of United New England

Libertas Omnium Maximus wrote:the hulacost

The hulacost is when you commit genocide while wearing a grass skirt and a lei.

In all seriousness, though, I agree with your reasoning. The fascist bundle of sticks symbol isn’t viewed the same as the swastika, but more like the hammer and sickle.

Malabra, Zamastan, Shuell, Gonhog, and 2 othersChristos, and Algebron

The Federal Republic of Libertas Omnium Maximus

United New England wrote:The hulacost is when you commit genocide while wearing a grass skirt and a lei.

Yeah, my spelling in that post was the stuff of tales.

Malabra, Zamastan, Shuell, Gonhog, and 1 otherUnited New England

The Social Democracy of Gardavasque

Libertas Omnium Maximus wrote:I have no issue ejecting a raider or Nazi or troll. This guy clearly fell onto the former catagory and his ejection was probably justified. I do have a problem with setting a precident for ejecting people before they do anything wrong in this region.

So it sounds like there two questions here: 1) Does a nation espousing the principals, ideals, tactics, symbols, etc. of nazism, fascism, and/or communism constitute doing something wrong in this region? And 2) What is the standard for reasonable suspicion of malicious intent when it comes to border security? Have I got these right?

The Divine Federation of Sanctaria

Having an active founder means nothing btw if there are hoops to jump through to expel raiders.

E.g. if we have to do stuff by act of IDUSA, only nations that keep their residency in the IDU can maintain their membership by IDUSA. If raiders come and kick everyone out, but I/others can't do anything without act of IDUSA, but then if they kick everyone out of IDUSA who votes etc etc

The IDU has lasted this long, despite its creation by a bunch of refugees from TNP, without being raided or anything like that because we have the liberty of acting without restriction by the founder. There are various safeguards in effect here in that more than one person has access to the founder, those who do have access to the founder are in other positions of responsibility (all bar one of us are actually NationStates Staff), and all of us have reputations that are really important to us which would be severely diminished if we acted out of turn.

To date we've exercised a "know it when we see it" approach, alongside some intelligence gathering. It's why sometimes you will notice I let someone act the troll, and why in this latest case I moved to eject them immediately. Sometimes I have proof they're not who they say they are, sometimes I don't and (while I'm watchful) I let the persons actions speak for themselves before I move to eject them.

When it does come to ejecting, I always ask the nation to leave by their own volition first (unless it's an emergency situation obvs).

Re swastika and hammer and sickle, the swastika (when displayed on the Gameside in the form associated with Naziism) is against site rules. Full stop. It's against site rules, and it's used for only one reason - facism or naziism, neither of which are welcome in this region.

The hammer and sickle are not against site rules. And they're not against site rules because (rightly or wrongly) there's a lot more grey in its application than simply remembrance of Stalin or whatever.

I'm inclined to give someone a warning when they first come here if they're displaying Nazi imagery (I also report it to the Game Moderation). It usually spurs me on to do my own investigation of where they come from, actions they did in the last place(s) they were, reputation across NS etc etc.

When it comes to hammer and sickle, I do watch them more than I would other nations, and do a bit of a background check on them, but not to the same extent if it was a swastika/other Nazi imagery, and that's down to the Nazis boldly flouting site rules moreso than anything else.

Living in East Germany as I do, I'm acutely aware that communism can have just as much of a detrimental effect on people that facism does. I live in a place in the world that for almost 60 of the last 100 years has lived under either fascism or communism.

The Transcathayan Empire of Trive 38

Algebron wrote:Outside of RP, this whole thing here raises an interesting question IMO. Why isn't the hammer-and-sickle treated like the swastika? I mean, not to do the tired "both sides" shtick that we all hate, but I think it's still fair to point out that Marxist-Leninist regimes have had a less than stellar history in terms of repression and body counts. Obviously those regimes did mellow out quite a bit over time, but the questionable histories remain.

(Obviously this is ignoring the actual ideals of the two, as there's no question that Communist ideology is far more noble than the Nazis--stateless society sounds much better than genocide IMO--but is more just about similarity of methods, historically-speaking.)

Though communism supposedly killed off more people, National-Socialism was infamous due to its racial/religious targeting and their methods of extermination, unlike the communists that mostly targeted the intelligentsia and other possible oppositors.
Also, communism is mostly considered a "clean" ideology when based on the writings of Marx and Engels, (hence today's communists arguing that the USSR's communism wasn't real communism) though a good read on them might make you change your mind, unlike National Socialism, which very openly advocated mass genocide, warmongering and racial supremacy.
Overall both are terrible twisted totalitarian ideologies - and if we're gonna cut down on the nazis, it's perfectly reasonable to cut down on the commies too.

The Transcathayan Empire of Trive 38

Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

The First Republic of Zamastan

Trive 38 wrote:Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

Probably Western Canada/USA. I've based Zamastan geography off British Columbia

Naboompu and Trive 38

The Transcathayan Empire of Trive 38

Zamastan wrote:Probably Western Canada/USA. I've based Zamastan geography off British Columbia

So you're basically Cascadia?

Naboompu and Zamastan

The Second Allied Provinces of Laeral

Trive 38 wrote:Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

Central/North China, probably.

The Divine Federation of Sanctaria

Sanctaria is basically the EU (territory).

Laeral why was I quoted?

The Second Allied Provinces of Laeral

Sanctaria wrote:Sanctaria is basically the EU (territory).

Laeral why was I quoted?

That's a mistake on my part. Part of a post I must have been drafting a few days ago. I'll make the edit.

The Federal Republic of Libertas Omnium Maximus

Trive 38 wrote:Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

France?

The Social Democracy of Gardavasque

Trive 38 wrote:Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

I like to think of
Gardavasque as being “inspired by” Catalonia and California with a dash of Betazed thrown in.

The ✨Interstellar Commonwealth✨ of United New England

Trive 38 wrote:Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

Hmm, I think United New England would be in Kyrgyzstan. ;)

The Federal Republic of Libertas Omnium Maximus

United New England wrote:Hmm, I think United New England would be in Kyrgystan. ;)

Nah, United New England would be Austria for sure!

The Monarchical Republic of Christos

Trive 38 wrote:Unrelated note:
What RL territories would your countries be in? I'm planning a Hearts of Iron IV IDU mod.

Christos would probably be Canada or Spain.
I would say Poland but I know how long they last in Hearts of Iron IV games. lol

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