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The Green Otters' State of Garbelia

Simbolon wrote:Never heard of this term before. Does it relate in any way to a certain semi-aquatic friend of ours?

I assume you're joking.

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Middle Barael, and Nation of ecologists

Kepler-0085

I'm leaving NS for a while, sorry if anyone will need me in that time, ill be leaving because i need to sort out some things in my life.
Goodbye Forestians.

The Intensive Care Unit of Candlewhisper Archive

So, how do folk feel about polymetallic nodule mining, from an environmental point of view?

The Equatorial Forests of Uan aa Boa

Cameroi just CTEd, which is very sad. His posting was sometimes pretty gnomic, but it was distinctive and certainly added to the region. I hope he returns, and not just because without him and Errinundera I'm worried I might now be the oldest person here.

Good luck with sorting your things Kepler-0085.

Ownzone wrote:How do you see what regions a nation has been in?

When Heillblod arrived the list of actions at the bottom of the nation page still said that 300ish days ago the nation had CTE'd in Nazi Europa. Once enough new actions had taken place to push that off that page I know of no way to find that information, though there may be offsite tools.

The Federative Republic of Atsvea

Ordealius wrote:Is there a written dispatch or page that mentions Forest RMB ettiquette? I only know about the explicit double posting rule because I've seen others get warned about it. Is there somewhere I can send new nationstates to get them up to speed, like a "READ THIS FIRST" dispatch?

Thank you!

Prolly not. This might be close...

Caracasus wrote:On double posting.

Forest is a large region with an active RMB. The avoid double posting rule seems largely supported by Forest and I think it makes sense.

I can concede that there are some occasions - very rarely - where it has to be done - a sudden change of topic for example where including everything in one post would be confusing, hard to follow or downright tasteless. In those instances I don't think anyone would mind that much (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.)

If people persistently double post for no good reason to the point that it becomes annoying for others then I guess the were elephants will eat well. They are after all always hungry.

I personally feel it to be a good guideline to follow and for the most part most of us manage to do so. What do others think?

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:So, how do folk feel about polymetallic nodule mining, from an environmental point of view?

I think they tried it fifty years ago... called it potato picking... then surface mining prices became much too low and the un stepped in... hope it never happens before we find out anything of the deep sea, because right now the effects are basically completely unknown...

The Matriarchy of The Teeth

I don't really understand how anyone could mistake the neo-nazi for anything other than a neo-nazi.
every post included several red flags!

If you ask someone to confirm that they're not a nazi and they don't confirm it...they're a nazi and probably a baby-nazi who's not quite sure of themselves yet.

Which is honestly the only reason I could think of for letting them stay here. Sometimes being surrounded by reasonable people deradicalises them... but it's a long shot.

The Confederacy of Novian Republics

Verdant Haven wrote:This individual...
A) Uses a widely known Neo-Nazi symbol on their flag, which was also specifically the symbol used by the group within the Nazi party responsible for racial purity within the SS.
B) Declared his "like" of a well-known Neo-Nazi phrase, which was also used regularly by the Nazi party, and was the motto of the Hitler Youth.
C) Was resident in an actively Nazi region, which continues to engage in Neo-Nazism.
D) His name is literally "Heill Blod" - take your pick of languages, but it basically translates as "pure blood" or "intact blood"
E) Above all, they spent their entire time here downplaying the evils of Nazism, and avoiding any questions about any of the above with whataboutism and counter-accusation.

So on Holocaust Remembrance Day, a guy named "pure blood" shows up from a Nazi region, flying the symbol of the Nazis responsible for racial purity, claiming allegiance to the motto of the Hitler Youth, and defending Nazi activity.

Border control is none of my business any more, but this individual's immediate removal was absolutely correct and in line with our Constitution. As a couple others have said - as a person with decades of experience moderating online communities, people like that are extremely recognizable. They are troll provocateurs, who live to skirt the edge of "rules" in order to disrupt order and spout their hate, with the intent that when the rules are then applied to them they can scream that it's you, not them, who is being intolerant. Nazis and Nazism are absolutely and purposefully hurtful and offensive, to literally any thinking human. Period.

I personally don't see indifference/apathy to being called a Nazi to be indicative of support of Nazism. The point they make about Nazi being a buzzword (much like commie is) is a perfectly valid point to make. People get called Nazis/fascists and commies all the time for the most insignificant of things, often for just disagreeing. For such people the terms lose their meaning. I've personally been called both a fascist and commie (and here a radical centrist) for the most minor of deviation from consensus, so I can see where it might be coming from.

The Matriarchy of The Teeth

Novian Republics wrote:I personally don't see indifference/apathy to being called a Nazi to be indicative of support of Nazism.

neither do I but they didn't deny the accusation.
that's the issue.

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and 1 otherGarbelia

Simbolon

Garbelia wrote:I assume you're joking.

Well, the second part sort of, but I genuinely don't know. That's literally what first came up when searching for it. Pardon me for my dumbness..

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and 1 otherGarbelia

The Confederacy of Novian Republics

The Teeth wrote:neither do I but they didn't deny the accusation.
that's the issue.

Thing is that once accused of being a fascist/commie/radical the label usually sticks. Rarely have I seen it help anyone to deny such accusations as more often than not the denial is then seen as being disingenuous and thus regarded as an admission of guilt. Once a person has been in that situation enough times one simply stops to care, as it's seen as a fruitless endeavour to try and change people's mind when they likely already have made up their mind.

The People's Democratic Republic of Outer Bele Levy Epies

Like The Python said:

BASH THE FASH! BASH THE FASH! FASH BASH FASH BASH!

The Equatorial Forests of Uan aa Boa

Novian Republics wrote:Thing is that once accused of being a fascist/commie/radical the label usually sticks.

I appreciate that nazi and commie are often used loosely and inaccurately. I'm guessing, however, that when you were last called a communist you weren't newly arrived from The Internationale, flying a hammer and sickle flag, calling yourself the People's Republic of Kim Jong Gulag, and introducing yourself by saying "Workers of the word unite." If I'm right there, it wasn't really an equivalent situation.

The Green Otters' State of Garbelia

Simbolon wrote:Well, the second part sort of, but I genuinely don't know. That's literally what first came up when searching for it. Pardon me for my dumbness..

It is my made up otter-worshipping ideology. You are right about the adorable semi-aquatic mammals though.

Outer Bele Levy Epies wrote:Like The Python said:

BASH THE FASH! BASH THE FASH! FASH BASH FASH BASH!

There is a Raider Bele Levy Epies, so why not a Fash-Bashing Bele Levy Epies...

Cuillin, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Middle Barael, and 1 otherNation of ecologists

The Socialist Republic of Cuillin

Novian Republics wrote:Thing is that once accused of being a fascist/commie/radical the label usually sticks. Rarely have I seen it helping to deny such accusations as more often than not the denial is then seen as being disingenuous and thus regarded as an admission of guilt. Once a person has been in that situation enough times one simply stops to care, as it's seen as a fruitless endeavour to try and change people's mind when they likely already have made up their mind.

Hi Novian,

I felt horrified on seeing this nation's symbolism and language, but I didn't say anything because I'm newish here and didn't want to rock the boat. Only later based on their manner did I feel I needed to speak out, and I have apologised for my tone in response to what I saw was someone promoting Nazi symbolism and language. I think what they had on their profile was a deliberate provocation, and they were looking for the reactions. To me, their whole manner was disingenuous and very coy despite the very obvious symbolism they represented.

I see what you are saying, and I understand why you are making the argument. In good conscience I disagree. For me, the symbolism combined with how he engaged with the maybe I am/ maybe I'm not style I think was deliberately done. I read through some of the things he has on his nation, and from his writing I think he is not as daft as he presented us with.

To me, there is no equivalence between communist and Nazi. I think communism is a political view/ideology that is understandable if misguided. I think Nazism is a death cult rather than an ideological position and should not be tolerated anywhere. I don't think there is equivalence in calling someone a fascist and a Nazi either. I think calling names is wrong regardless, but there is a difference of severity there.

For me, I think had he reacted differently to and realised what his symbolism meant, then I probably would have reacted differently too! That is not to excuse my response at all. Such as it was, he did not present to me as a misguided and ignorant person. Rather he presented as someone who thought it would be a bit of fun to provoke others. His style is coyly provocative, and he started with that same routine with the new region he joined.

The Matriarchy of The Teeth

I completely agree with Cuillin.
Everything about that guy screamed 'nazi testing the water' to anyone who's had the displeasure of dealing with Nazis before.

The Whispering Trees of Murmuria

The most serene republicans wrote:Recife is, indeed, really beautiful. And as someone who has lived in multiple capitals/metropolitan urban zones in Brazil, I can say it is quite special in many ways. I really like to walk around the older neighborhoods because a lot of the old architecture is still intact, and these old houses/buildings are still painted in very vivid colors like they were in the 17th/18th century, so it's really eye candy. São Paulo is often a claustrophobic grey distopia, Brasilia is very beautiful but somewhat artificial and Rio is... Well... O Morro não tem vez. They're all beautiful in their own ways but Recife is something else.

By the by, the wind and humidity + winds make these temperature changes feel a bit amplified. When it's colder and you have that nice breeze it feels more like 18C if you're lucky, and when it's hot you want to die.

And going to the interior of Pernambuco you'll end up reaching the Sertões. They are drier, yes. In fact, they usually look like deserts, although they're very far from being that. The name of the type of vegetation there translates to "white forest" in an old indigenous language. I've had the oportunity to see what the Sertões look like after rain, however, and it's an enormous difference. It really does look like a forest, except a green one this time. I imagine this is something like what happens in temperate climates during spring, except you can't really predict when it's gonna rain in these regions.

There's an old saying that goes "The Sertão is only dead for strangers", which basically means that if you think that's a desert, then you have no clue where you are. That part of the state is actually why I'm so adamant to include some representation of the different types of forests in the new Forestian CoA, because it's just not fair to ignore places like that.

Que boa lição de Geografia do Brasil. Obrigado.

Mount Seymour, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Uan aa Boa, and 6 othersThe Teeth, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, Garbelia, The most serene republicans, and Lugnan

The Confederacy of Novian Republics

Uan aa Boa wrote:I appreciate that nazi and commie are often used loosely and inaccurately. I'm guessing, however, that when you were last called a communist you weren't newly arrived from The Internationale, flying a hammer and sickle flag, calling yourself the People's Republic of Kim Jong Gulag, and introducing yourself by saying "Workers of the word unite." If I'm right there, it wasn't really an equivalent situation.

Well based on an overarching perspective the situation is obviously not the same, from the perspective of the accused however it may very well be.

Cuillin wrote:
Hi Novian,

I felt horrified on seeing this nation's symbolism and language, but I didn't say anything because I'm newish here and didn't want to rock the boat. Only later based on their manner did I feel I needed to speak out, and I have apologised for my tone in response to what I saw was someone promoting Nazi symbolism and language. I think what they had on their profile was a deliberate provocation, and they were looking for the reactions. To me, their whole manner was disingenuous and very coy despite the very obvious symbolism they represented.

I see what you are saying, and I understand why you are making the argument. In good conscience I disagree. For me, the symbolism combined with how he engaged with the maybe I am/ maybe I'm not style I think was deliberately done. I read through some of the things he has on his nation, and from his writing I think he is not as daft as he presented us with.

To me, there is no equivalence between communist and Nazi. I think communism is a political view/ideology that is understandable if misguided. I think Nazism is a death cult rather than an ideological position and should not be tolerated anywhere. I don't think there is equivalence in calling someone a fascist and a Nazi either. I think calling names is wrong regardless, but there is a difference of severity there.

For me, I think had he reacted differently to and realised what his symbolism meant, then I probably would have reacted differently too! That is not to excuse my response at all. Such as it was, he did not present to me as a misguided and ignorant person. Rather he presented as someone who thought it would be a bit of fun to provoke others. His style is coyly provocative, and he started with that same routine with the new region he joined.

I don't necessarily take issue with your reaction, as really at most I think it may have just been a bit premature.

The Socialist Republic of Cuillin

Novian Republics wrote:Well based on an overarching perspective the situation is obviously not the same, from the perspective of the accused however it may very well be.

I don't necessarily take issue with your reaction, as really at most I think it may have just been a bit premature.

Perhaps. I have come across fascists and neo Nazis in real life, and I have confronted them. I won't tolerate that language or symbolism ever.

I don't know who is in charge of these things, but can we have a discussion about going forward about nations that present with neo Nazi flags or symbolism? I would like to propose a rule change if necessary.

The Confederacy of Kawastyselir

Ownzone wrote:EDIT: How do you see what regions a nation has been in?

If it doesn't show extended history on their nation page, try the NSDossier Tools site from our embassy region Texas, then search in NSHistory. It records NS activity back to about September 2015. It also has plenty of other interesting nation and region statistics to peruse if you'd like.

The Matriarchy of The Teeth

sorry to go back to the topic of Scotland but I have a good anecdote about the 'no true scotsman fallacy', kind of.

When I was a child, my grandad always criticised my porridge choices.

One morning he came downstairs and started his 'no true scot would eat porridge with MILK and no salt!' nonsense.
So I informed him that it was made with sottish heather honey, Grahams butter (local brand), and a local whiskey.

He went red and never criticised my porridge again.
And I have a strangely high alcohol tolerance even though I weigh 60kg and I don't drink.

The Whispering Trees of Murmuria

In my humble opinion, most people who fancy themselves as nazis are misguided attention seekers who think it's cool to have a taste of an ideologically disgusting, historically deplored forbidden fruit.
I believe most of them aren't even German. You have to be German to be a nazi. It was a German phenomenon. They didn't fight in the Great War. They know nothing about the Treaty of Versailles. Did they read any of Erich Maria Remarque's novels ? I think not. What do they really know ?
Many say they are nazi for shock value only. Ask them about the background and history of nazi ideology. Ask them about "Mein Kampf". They might think it's a German dish from Rheinland-Pfalz.
I don't believe they could sterilise and even euthanise disabled children and commit mass murder and genocide. They just don't have it in them.
Even the most fanatic nazi devotee, in the Battle of Stalingrad, starving and freezing under a temperature of 40° below, thought if it had really been worth it.
Not only is nazism appalling for all moral reasons, to say one is a nazi today is going against History. They pretend to be a blast from the past. In reality they are paper dragons and no more than pathetic firecrackers.

The Equatorial Forests of Uan aa Boa

Cuillin wrote:I don't know who is in charge of these things, but can we have a discussion about going forward about nations that present with neo Nazi flags or symbolism? I would like to propose a rule change if necessary.

I would 100% support that. When Heillblod arrived I still had border control powers as an Election Officer. I did consider banning them before they ever posted based on aesthetic and point of origin, but I figured that this wouldn't be considered a very Foresty action, I'm the ex-Red Fleet guy, the only person (at that point) to have used the banhammer recently etc etc. Things would have turned out better if I'd done it.

"Forest welcomes all nations" is the usual counter-argument, but for me that's precisely the point. Our community has many Jewish members, LGBT+ members, and members from diverse races and cultures. How welcoming is it to say that strutting around Forest dressing up as a Nazi is OK?

Another counterargument is Nazi Flower Power, a satirical nation that dwelt quietly and inoffensively in Forest for a long time. The flag featured a swastika and the motto (which made me smile) was "Volk, Reich, Blumen." I felt it was harmless, and if it was still here and we introduced a rule I'd support not enforcing the rule retrospectively. In the bigger picture though, the right to make satirical use of Nazi symbols is a small price to pay for making it clear that we're a region that has a robust zero tolerance of fascism. It's so important to get this one right and not fudge the issue like they do in Europe. I'm on the political left, but this is not a leftist issue. It's an issue of basic decency, and in a year in which the actual US President used white supremacists he called "very fine people" to attempt a coup - it matters.

The Teeth wrote:... whiskey....

No true Scot spells whisky with an e.

The People's Republic of Bananaistan

Murmuria wrote:In my humble opinion, most people who fancy themselves as nazis are misguided attention seekers who think it's cool to have a taste of an ideologically disgusting, historically deplored forbidden fruit.
I believe most of them aren't even German. You have to be German to be a nazi. It was a German phenomenon. They didn't fight in the Great War. They know nothing about the Treaty of Versailles. Did they read any of Erich Maria Remarque's novels ? I think not. What do they really know ?
Many say they are nazi for shock value only. Ask them about the background and history of nazi ideology. Ask them about "Mein Kampf". They might think it's a German dish from Rheinland-Pfalz.
I don't believe they could sterilise and even euthanise disabled children and commit mass murder and genocide. They just don't have it in them.
Even the most fanatic nazi devotee, in the Battle of Stalingrad, starving and freezing under a temperature of 40° below, thought if it had really been worth it.
Not only is nazism appalling for all moral reasons, to say one is a nazi today is going against History. They pretend to be a blast from the past. In reality they are paper dragons and no more than pathetic firecrackers.

The ideology didn't suddenly disappear in May 1945. It still has adherents and it's reasonable to call these people nazis.

At the least they are fascists. They are in power in some countries and close to power in others. Just because they've dropped some of the obviously more nasty elements from their public platforms, doesn't mean they wouldn't get up to all sorts of nastiness if they got a chance.

We must oppose them strongly and vociferously whenever we come across them. On the streets, online, wherever. Zero tolerance and none of this liberal free speech nonsense for the ultimate in toxic ideologies.

As for pretend fascists. F*** them. Let them pretend something else.

Daarwyrth

Bananaistan wrote:The ideology didn't suddenly disappear in May 1945. It still has adherents and it's reasonable to call these people nazis.

At the least they are fascists. They are in power in some countries and close to power in others. Just because they've dropped some of the obviously more nasty elements from their public platforms, doesn't mean they wouldn't get up to all sorts of nastiness if they got a chance.

We must oppose them strongly and vociferously whenever we come across them. On the streets, online, wherever. Zero tolerance and none of this liberal free speech nonsense for the ultimate in toxic ideologies.

As for pretend fascists. F*** them. Let them pretend something else.

Amen

The Rewilding of Ruinenlust

R.I.P. Prince Philip. We should all be so lucky to make it to 99 years old.

Ordealius, Mozworld, Murmuria, Verdant Haven, and 15 othersEinswenn, Mount Seymour, Daarwyrth, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Terrabod, New ladavia, Roless, Simbolon, Lura, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, Garbelia, Wooderland country, and Biae

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