The InternationaleBoard

Aj empire wrote:

Do all comrades here support abortion?(which i assume so but just for sake of debate)

“The criticism of religion ends with the teaching that man is the highest being for man, hence with the categorical imperative to overthrow all relations in which man is a debased, enslaved, forsaken, despicable being ...” -categorical imperative after Karl Marx

In our current society(and previous ones) females are used for the reproduction of labourers. The socio-economic, cultural or religious circumstances are putting chains and weights on everyone but especialy onto the females while also effectively disfiguring the perception and thinking of everyone. To achieve a truly free society no human being shall be forced into previous, hopefully soon overcome circumstances which produced unimagineable suffering and pain for hundreds of years.

With our current technological level we shall allow the reproduction through vat-technology and artifical uterus where partners would supply the vat reproduction lab when they whish for a child with their own DNA(eggcells,sperm). While still allowing biological reproduction for everyone that wants it. This could push a socialist society a good amount forward into establishing a commubist utopia.

Oh, how nice, that 'biological reproduction' would still be allowed in your 'communist utopia'...
There´s only one goal to achieve (for any society), a proper mindset for everyone, which doesn´t rely on the (more or less) basic thought, that a male is somehow 'superior', of 'more value' or 'better' (biological different, that´s true, but all) than a female, and has the 'natural' (kultural, religious, traditional) right to dominate, define or even 'own' a female; this goes, sorry to have to say so, as well for 'leftist' societies as for 'rightist' or 'centrist' ones.
The base for every male 'leftist' should be, to treat his female partners, comrades, every female as equal, an equal individuum and human, and this starts with such little details like housekeeping, cooking, spending time with the children (if there are some), I guess you got, what I mean.
No offense meant, but there is no need to cite mr. Marx, or whomever on 'equality of humans', or 'protesting in the streets', if you (me, if you want to) ha(s)ve not achieved this simple goal for yourself (myself) before. Just remember : every revolution starts on the individuum.

As for the USofA, this is a big country, and, at the current situation, it´s very hard to predict an future outcome of this decision of the Supreme Court, since not everyone there is a religious, conservative, chauvinist or otherwise a***e, so we´ll first have to see, what the near future brings; this courts decision also could turn out to be the first step to the doom of 'right-wing' America...

1st level of hell wrote:

Oh, how nice, that 'biological reproduction' would still be allowed in your 'communist utopia'...
There´s only one goal to achieve (for any society), a proper mindset for everyone, which doesn´t rely on the (more or less) basic thought, that a male is somehow 'superior', of 'more value' or 'better' (biological different, that´s true, but all) than a female, and has the 'natural' (kultural, religious, traditional) right to dominate, define or even 'own' a female; this goes, sorry to have to say so, as well for 'leftist' societies as for 'rightist' or 'centrist' ones.
The base for every male 'leftist' should be, to treat his female partners, comrades, every female as equal, an equal individuum and human, and this starts with such little details like housekeeping, cooking, spending time with the children (if there are some), I guess you got, what I mean.
No offense meant, but there is no need to cite mr. Marx, or whomever on 'equality of humans', or 'protesting in the streets', if you (me, if you want to) ha(s)ve not achieved this simple goal for yourself (myself) before. Just remember : every revolution starts on the individuum.

As for the USofA, this is a big country, and, at the current situation, it´s very hard to predict an future outcome of this decision of the Supreme Court, since not everyone there is a religious, conservative, chauvinist or otherwise a***e, so we´ll first have to see, what the near future brings; this courts decision also could turn out to be the first step to the doom of 'right-wing' America...

A human being is a product of its material circumstances. The material circumstances determine the being of an individual not the other way around. The masses must develope into becoming self responsible individuals(Kant) and that is only achieveable under a socialist society where the material circumstances are progressing and changing in a way that benefits the developement of an human being for itself and for the society as a whole. Through technolgoical progress for the masses and automation of the industrial production which again change the being of the individual itself a classless society can be achieved.
In no way it was wrong to cite Marx on that because I just explained that you need to abolish the current circumstances in any way to free any individuum.
Saying that "Every revolution start with the individuum" is very poetic and nice but no it begins with the masses as a whole which will change the society in their self interest and only after that a true individuum can develop because in our current society no one can escape pur material circumstances that determine our being. We can work on that and we should. But your comment is wrong in my opinion Comrade. But I still understand how you meant it :)

The so often and gladly cited 'masses' are, sorry to have to state this, nothing more than a bunch of brainless idiots, falling for every manipulation and agitation, a herd; it´s the individuum, that might come to conciousness, thoughts of own origin, resistance to manipulation, seduction, the power to whitstand the temptation, that lies in the 'safety' of being part of the brainless mob.
As well I do understand, that you´re talking about 'the masses' in some different way and meaning, as well I stand to my claim, that lasting changes only can come from the individuum, not from 'the masses', and that´s one of the main reasons, imo, why lasting changes are so hard to achieve and why almost all 'revolutions' have failed over time.
And no, material circumstances dont inevitably define and determine the individuum, imo. they just define, how many ressources and options (materially) an individuum has (can use), and how hard or easy it´s struggle (?) for being is...

1st level of hell wrote:

The so often and gladly cited 'masses' are, sorry to have to state this, nothing more than a bunch of brainless idiots, falling for every manipulation and agitation, a herd; it´s the individuum, that might come to conciousness, thoughts of own origin, resistance to manipulation, seduction, the power to whitstand the temptation, that lies in the 'safety' of being part of the brainless mob.
As well I do understand, that you´re talking about 'the masses' in some different way and meaning, as well I stand to my claim, that lasting changes only can come from the individuum, not from 'the masses', and that´s one of the main reasons, imo, why lasting changes are so hard to achieve and why almost all 'revolutions' have failed over time.
And no, material circumstances dont inevitably define and determine the individuum, imo. they just define, how many ressources and options (materially) an individuum has (can use), and how hard or easy it´s struggle (?) for being is...

Your fetishization of the individual is misguided. Individuals don't develop in their own bubble. You, as an individual, are taught how to speak and write a pre-existing language by someone else. You went to a pre-existing school, with its own pre-existing curriculum and you interact continuously with other classmates. You consume media 1) that is made by others brought up in the same/similar society as you, or 2) whose views reflect those of the broader society at large. Your thoughts are, for the most part, molded almost entirely by the existing society around you. And that already-existing society is molded nearly entirely by the socioeconomic system that serves as its base (i.e., material realities). The negation of collective action in favor of over-fixation on individual power is a classic feature of liberalism, the hegemonic ideology promoted by modern capitalism. The supremacy of the individual above all else and the permeation of market logic to all facets of society are notions that reinforce capitalism and are reinforced by capitalism. In other words, the material realities of your existence (you, living in a liberal, capitalist society) have shaped a much larger part of how you think than you give credit for.

Mass, collective action has been the centerpiece of virtually every major societal change in humanity. Individuals, by themselves, are useless. Collective action, in contrast, pressures and topples governments when effective. In the West, virtually every major reformist concession to the labor movement was the result of 1)the threat of mass violence and/or 2)nonviolent pressures made by strong labor organizations. Almost every revolution in history, even those that have been defeated, has had major positive historical consequences. Under the French Revolution and Napoleon, the ideals of revolutionary liberalism had been sown throughout Europe, leading to an accelerated demise of old feudal orders. Through the Russian Revolution, the lands of the former Russian empire had achieved levels of development that would never have been realized under the Tsarist regime. Plus, that revolution gave incredible inspiration to dozens of liberating, anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist movements around the world. Do you think fascism was defeated by one person- do you it was just Stalin or Churchill killing Nazis and nobody else? Individuals are nothing by themselves.

we regret to inform this but, it seems we may have to deploy WMDS to counteract the rebels and their allies, we are losing to many people to this war and it needs to be ended, although I don't agree with the decision to possibly use WMDS on them, but it may come to it soon...

right now though as you may be able to tell the tensions have reached to a very high point with them threatening to use nuclear weapons if we do not surrender

Anasychkinark wrote:

right now though as you may be able to tell the tensions have reached to a very high point with them threatening to use nuclear weapons if we do not surrender

Well, this is perfect time to try out new super tech we made. Not only can we clear radiation very quickly but if they try a counter strike, we have a new classified way to at least protect our major cities from existential damage. So with all do respect to their existence... Fire away!

hey i will be the worst country to live on in the future

I think we have a problem here...

Hey comrades !
In which countries do you all live ? And does your political view in this region represent ypur political view in real life ? And if so are you active or organised in any way ?
Just curious

European union of marxist republics wrote:

Hey comrades !
In which countries do you all live ? And does your political view in this region represent ypur political view in real life ? And if so are you active or organised in any way ?
Just curious

I am indian and yes, i am an irl leftist
And nope, i aint organised, i am just a teen :)

Anasychkinark wrote:

we regret to inform this but, it seems we may have to deploy WMDS to counteract the rebels and their allies, we are losing to many people to this war and it needs to be ended, although I don't agree with the decision to possibly use WMDS on them, but it may come to it soon...

Use a nuke and all your official relations with AJ empire will be destroyed :|
We are very extreme anti WMDs, and we can't possibly keep relations with a nation using nuke. If you are worried for rebels, then we are willing to send 178 anti ballistic missiles that can destroy upcoming nukes in air.

European union of marxist republics wrote:

Hey comrades !
In which countries do you all live ? And does your political view in this region represent ypur political view in real life ? And if so are you active or organised in any way ?
Just curious

I live in the absolute [REDACTED]-hole known only as Florida, United States, so absolutely not. As a Trotskyist we are beyond censored and opposed by the government. And like Aj empire, I'm just a teen so I can't do much (though it's my life's goal to do something once I can. I haven't much else to live for, so might as well put my existence to good use.)

Aj empire wrote:

Use a nuke and all your official relations with AJ empire will be destroyed :|
We are very extreme anti WMDs, and we can't possibly keep relations with a nation using nuke. If you are worried for rebels, then we are willing to send 178 anti ballistic missiles that can destroy upcoming nukes in air.

And yeah, on that note we retract our statement Anasychkinark don't fire any nukes we can't since we don't even have any, but we can defend against them. Let them appear as the monsters.

". . . and Mr. Astrakhan exclaimed, amidst thunderous applause:

“We have to convince mothers to bear children so that they can be maimed in educational establishments, so that lots can be drawn for them, so that they can be driven to suicide!”

If the report is true that this exclamation of Mr. Astrakhan’s was greeted with thunderous applause, it is a fact that does not surprise me. The audience was made up of bourgeois, middle and petty bourgeois, who have the psychology of the philistine. What can you expect from them but the most banal liberalism?

From the point of view of the working class, however, it would hardly be possible to find a more apposite expression of the completely reactionary nature and the ugliness of “social neomalthusianism” than Mr. Astrakhan’s phrase cited above.

... “Bear children so that they can be maimed” ... For that alone? Why not that they should fight better, more unitedly, consciously and resolutely than we are fighting against the present-day conditions of life that are maiming and ruining our generation?

. . .

It goes without saying that this does not by any means prevent us from demanding the unconditional annulment of all laws against abortions or against the distribution of medical literature on contraceptive measures, etc. Such laws are nothing but the hypocrisy of the ruling classes. These laws do not heal the ulcers of capitalism, they merely turn them into malignant ulcers that are especially painful for the oppressed masses. Freedom for medical propaganda and the protection of the elementary democratic rights of citizens, men and women, are one thing. The social theory of neomalthusianism is quite another. Class-conscious workers will always conduct the most ruthless struggle against attempts to impose that reactionary and cowardly theory on the most progressive and strongest class in modern society, the class that is the best prepared for great changes."

- Vladimir Lenin, The Working Class and Neo-Malthussianism

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/29.htm

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"During the last decade the number of women who terminate their pregnancy prematurely increased both with us and abroad.

The legislation of all countries struggles against this evil by punishing both the woman who is guilty of abortion and the operating physician.

This method of struggle has been ineffectual. Abortions were necessarily made in secret and the women very often became the victim of mercenary ignorant persons who traded in this secret operation.

As a result, 50% of women fell ill of infections after abortions and 4% of them died.

The workers’ and peasants’ Government realizing the dangers of such a situation has undertaken a campaign against secret abortions among working women.

It foresees that this phenomenon will gradually disappear with the building of socialism.

But until now the surviving traditions of the past and the heavy economic conditions of the present compel a good many women to have recourse to this operation. The People’s Commissariat of Health and the People’s Commissariat of Justice are convinced that methods of repression are completely useless in this case.

In order to preserve the health of women and the interests of the race from ignorant and greedy quacks these two commissariats decree:

(1) The operation know as abortion may be lawfully performed free of charge in Soviet hospitals where the conditions guarantee a maximum of injury.
(2) All persons who are not licensed doctors are strictly prohibited from performing abortions.
(3) The midwife guilty of performing this operation is deprived of the right of practice and is liable to punishment by the People’s Courts of Justice.
(4) The physician performing abortion in the course of his private practice with a mercenary purpose is liable to punishment by the People’s Courts of Justice."

- Soviet Decree Legalizing Abortion, October 18th, 1920

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.firstwave/cpl-abortion/section5.htm

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"I would like to say a few words about a question which is closely connected with the problem of maternity – the question of abortion, and Soviet Russia’s attitude to it. On 20 November 1920 the labour republic issued a law abolishing the penalties that had been attached to abortion. What is the reasoning behind this new attitude? Russia, after all, suffers not from an overproduction of living labour but rather from a lack of it. Russia is thinly, not densely populated. Every unit of labour power is precious. Why then have we declared abortion to be no longer a criminal offence? Hypocrisy and bigotry are alien to proletarian politics. Abortion is a problem connected with the problem of maternity, and likewise derives from the insecure position of women (we are not speaking here of the bourgeois class, where abortion has other reasons – the reluctance to “divide” an inheritance, to suffer the slightest discomfort, to spoil one’s figure or miss a few months of the season etc.)

Abortion exists and flourishes everywhere, and no laws or punitive measures have succeeded in rooting it out. A way round the law is always found. But “secret help” only cripples women; they become a burden on the labour government, and the size of the labour force is reduced. Abortion, when carried out under proper medical conditions, is less harmful and dangerous, and the woman can get back to work quicker. Soviet power realises that the need for abortion will only disappear on the one hand when Russia has a broad and developed network of institutions protecting motherhood and providing social education, and on the other hand when women understand that childbirth is a social obligation; Soviet power has therefore allowed abortion to be performed openly and in clinical conditions.

Besides the large-scale development of motherhood protection, the task of labour Russia is to strengthen in women the healthy instinct of motherhood, to make motherhood and labour for the collective compatible and thus do away with the need for abortion. This is the approach of the labour republic to the question of abortion, which still faces women in the bourgeois countries in all its magnitude. In these countries women are exhausted by the dual burden of hired labour for capital and motherhood. In Soviet Russia the working woman and peasant woman are helping the Communist Party to build a new society and to undermine the old way of life that has enslaved women. As soon as woman is viewed as being essentially a labour unit, the key to the solution of the complex question of maternity can be found. In bourgeois society, where housework complements the system of capitalist economy and private property creates a stable basis for the isolated form of the family, there is no way out for the working woman. The emancipation of women can only be completed when a fundamental transformation of living is effected; and life-styles will change only with the fundamental transformation of all production and the establishment of a communist economy. The revolution in everyday life is unfolding before our very eyes, and in this process the liberation of women is being introduced in practice."

- Alexandra Kollontai, The Labor of Women in the Evolution of the Economy

https://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1921/evolution.htm

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"Abortion, in view of the undeniable harm which it causes to health, is forbidden, whether in hospitals or in special nursing homes, or in the private houses of doctors or pregnant women. Abortion may be induced only when continuation of the pregnancy puts the pregnant woman’s life in danger or threatens to cause serious injury to her health, or else in cases of severe hereditary diseases of the parents, and then it may only be effected in hospitals and in maternity homes."

- Soviet Decree of 1936, On the Prohibitions of Abortions

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.firstwave/cpl-abortion/section5.htm

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"The fight against abortions must be carried on not by persecuting the mothers, who resort to abortions often at great risk to their own lives, but must be directed towards eliminating the social causes that have made it necessary for women to resort to abortions.

...Of course, impunity with respect to abortions cannot rid the mother of the depression produced by an abortion. Her whole organism has, as it were, entered on the path of childbirth, the organism has begun to adapt itself to nourishing the embryo within it, and the mother usually feels an interruption of this process to be a crime against herself and her child. The nervous excitement and yearning that can often be seen in the eyes of a woman who has resorted to an abortion are enough to show at what price the mother buys her freedom.

It was bitter want that compelled the working women to reject motherhood.

Improvement of general living conditions, and particularly the protection of mother and child and the public education of children, will remove this main cause.

Those who really want to remove from the order of the day all these horrible questions of infanticide, of abortions, of contraceptions, must work without pause to build the new life in which motherhood will take the place due to it."

- Nadezda Krupskaya, A Strong Soviet Family

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.firstwave/cpl-abortion/section6.htm

European union of marxist republics wrote:

Hey comrades !
In which countries do you all live ? And does your political view in this region represent ypur political view in real life ? And if so are you active or organised in any way ?
Just curious

In China. However, I, an anarchist, and my friends, who hold a maoist idea, are not the leading political view :)
We have a small secret political group there, trying our best to educate students and organize leftists from other cities. (But it doesn't work, lol)

Red peak wrote:

In China. However, I, an anarchist, and my friends, who hold a maoist idea, are not the leading political view :)
We have a small secret political group there, trying our best to educate students and organize leftists from other cities. (But it doesn't work, lol)

I'm not surprised. As much as I support the CCP's efforts to keep Coronavirus down, its iron grip on the countries party system is less than optimal. Their fear probably is opening up political discourse would just be throwing opening a door for an American-backed party to rise up and threaten the People's Republic overall.

European union of marxist republics wrote:

Hey comrades !
In which countries do you all live ? And does your political view in this region represent ypur political view in real life ? And if so are you active or organised in any way ?
Just curious

I’m from Singapore, and yes this region does represent my political view IRL in most respects. I was more active as a student, but now I’m quite busy with work and with raising a family. XD

Aj empire wrote:

Use a nuke and all your official relations with AJ empire will be destroyed :|
We are very extreme anti WMDs, and we can't possibly keep relations with a nation using nuke. If you are worried for rebels, then we are willing to send 178 anti ballistic missiles that can destroy upcoming nukes in air.

we

Aj empire wrote:

Use a nuke and all your official relations with AJ empire will be destroyed :|
We are very extreme anti WMDs, and we can't possibly keep relations with a nation using nuke. If you are worried for rebels, then we are willing to send 178 anti ballistic missiles that can destroy upcoming nukes in air.

would be glad for that,although we have nuclear capabilities we really do not want to have to use them

and is it really that "bad" that we use bio weapons (mostly anthrax) in dire situations?

we have word though that one of thier allies are deploying A LOT of troops, and we may get overwhelmed unless we up our firepower quickly to defend against the attacks

(again though we are actually extremely close friends IRL so all of the tensions are RP only lol)

I live in Europe (that´s as precise as I will tell to anonymous people on the 'net'), and have been some kind of 'leftist' for almost my whole life; I´m as organized as I like to be, and much less active as earlier in my life - aging takes it´s toll, and younger, maybe better suited generations may take and bear the banner now. And I´m not only talking about or citing 'the working class', I´ve been part of it for more than forty years (and I mean real hard and backbreaking labour, not doing paperwork in some office, you know ?), and never really gave up fighting.

Just to add : I dont care about 'socialist', 'capitalist' or whatever else society, it´s just, that every woman (worker or bourgeouis, doesn´t matter) has the right to decide, if she´s willing to undergo the procedure of abortion (I would prefer to use contraceptives before, but as everyone knows, things happen often different), as it´s her body and life; and no society or gouvernment has some say in this; for no reason, period.

we do admit our government is corrupt, but if you decide to get after us for that, we may be able to arrange something to keep it under the rug heh